Sounds like toolbars aren’t going anywhere.

I apologize for not replying to your earlier. I appreciate your 2 cents. Opinions separated again as the newly proposed ShareASale’s toolbars policy has been discussed in this thread over the past two days.

Also, I have just seen that someone has found this post of mine by searching for a “list of affiliates using toolbars” at Google. Does anyone know if there is a list out there (listing unethical toolbar affiliates that overwrite and stuff cookies)?

Whatever constraints (rules) against any form of parasitic activity are put on the implementation and/or acceptance of a toolbar it seems as though there will always be room for, or the potential for, some form of abuse. If the potential is there, then some abuse will undoubtedly occur.

One cannot be just a “little bit” unethical. The choice is either ethical or unethical.

I have always tried to live by ethical standards and have tried to instill those standards in the students whom I have taught throughout the years. I also conduct my business activities ethically. With that in mind, I am totally against toolbars in an affiliate program. No toolbars – no way. Period.

Thank you for taking the time to voice out your opinion on the subject here. This post is quickly becoming one of the most popular ones in my blog (so far, the most popular one has been on ShopAtHome.com or How Affiliate Marketing Gets Hurt), and I am pleased to see it starting to get indexed by major search engines. Here’s how it already ranks:

C’mon AOL, you’re the only search engine that isn’t yet indexing this!!

It is an important topic, and I think it’s good that new merchants (and affiliate managers) will be able to find this blog post now.

Full circle…the PR issue I was talking about.

“the latter opens itself up to totally different set of challenges (compared to a non-software/toolbar type affiliate).”

I agree and disagree there. The mechanisms may be somewhat different for detection. But the underlying issue is the same: an affiliate link being invoked when it shouldn’t. In the case of a forced click, it’s a forced click whether it happend via software or on an affiliate’s site. And because it is a forced click regardless, many of the red flags will be the same.

If you ever venture into a black hat forum, you will see that the techniques to hide bad behavior and the red flags they try to avoid are indeed the same regardless of what mode they are using. There is a definite overlap.

“it may (and will) create situations where the intrusive behavior of a toolbar constructs real problems for affiliates”

No doubt because no compliance efforts are 100%. I think most recognize that. And many behaviors can’t be acted up until the behavior happens (you can’t penalize an affiliate because they might do something, you penalize when they do it). But that situation exists already with other forms of bad behavior. I find affiliates doing things they shouldn’t in SAS outside of adware. I have my own personal experiences of how SAS reacts to the things I’ve reported and the timeframe.

For me it’s not so much an issue about whether it will happen (it will) but rather how will SAS react when it is found to be happening. Do they act quickly and within the framework of the policy they set up.

I can understand those who may want to take a wait and see approach on how SAS does react with regards to compliance.

I commend Brian Littleton for taking a step that others have ignored in trying to, at the very least, look at this in public manner.

When a software (or a toolbar) affiliate is allowed into an affiliate network, the latter opens itself up to totally different set of challenges (compared to a non-software/toolbar type affiliate). An analogy of a half-open gate seems to be appropriate. Until there is a robust system of policing and prevention in place, it may (and will) create situations where the intrusive behavior of a toolbar constructs real problems for affiliates, and as a consequence, negatively effects the network’s image.

Nancy…so good to see you again! It was great being able to spend time with you a Summit.

Ahhhh..speculation. I prefer to deal in facts when possible. Although speculation often drives my research.

Yes, there are toolbars that are XML driven. I like getting those kind to test. And it is correct that the XML can impact how the toolbar will respond to the file (such as a prompt vs an automatic redirect). Most likely we would be talking about a Level 3 toolbar based on Brian’s classification to begin with. So if you know that is what you are dealing with to begin with, then I would suspect a specific compliance protocol would be implemented based on that fact.

Now a Level One toolbar probably wouldn’t even have that XML file associated with it. And if the affiliate decided to change from the Level 1 to Level 3, they would need to do more than just suddenly download an XML file. The base code of the toolbar would need to be altered as well to even amke use of the XML file.

What an XML file is also going to restrict is the types of things like having bad behavior at only certain times, every 15th activation of the software, etc. It’s going to be an all or none type situation. On or off until a new XML is made available for download onto the end user’s computer. A much easier thing to monitor IMO.

You don’t easily flip a switch between a search toolbar with maybe some glorified bookmarks to a toolbar with flashing lights and/or pop-ups. Those have to be integrated into the base code. All kinds of potential ways to look for that.

What specific risks do you feel are greater? And why do you think they are greater? Just curious.

And it’s certainly within your rights to decide the use of toolbars aren’t in the best interests of your clients. Just as you can make that decision for any form of promotion. I’m sure there are other practices you don’t allow by affiliates because you don’t feel they are in the merchant’s best interest. Indeed, you’d be remiss in your obligations if you didn’t give due consideration to the overall policies of the programs you managed.